Slip Sliding Away in the Eel River Canyon - Northwestern Pacific Railroad Network2024-03-28T18:44:17Zhttp://nwprr.net/forum/topics/slip-sliding-away-in-the-eel-river-canyon?commentId=3290209%3AComment%3A191434&xg_source=activity&feed=yes&xn_auth=noOops! As Jeff Moore points o…tag:nwprr.net,2019-03-02:3290209:Comment:1913572019-03-02T19:17:53.558ZDave S.http://nwprr.net/profile/dms
<p>Oops! As Jeff Moore points out below, I botched the spelling of two of these towns (Fernbridge and Ferndale). I'm usually much more careful about such things, and meant no disrespect to the inhabitants or anyone who has a connection with the area. I do apologize.</p>
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<p>C.E. Neal of the NWP states in the slide show on the 1964 flood damage that it was the result of a 1000 year storm:…</p>
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<p>Oops! As Jeff Moore points out below, I botched the spelling of two of these towns (Fernbridge and Ferndale). I'm usually much more careful about such things, and meant no disrespect to the inhabitants or anyone who has a connection with the area. I do apologize.</p>
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<p>C.E. Neal of the NWP states in the slide show on the 1964 flood damage that it was the result of a 1000 year storm:</p>
<p><a href="https://youtu.be/GE6vkl7mJpg?t=152" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/GE6vkl7mJpg?t=152</a></p>
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<p>Today, such a storm is referred to as an ARkStorm:</p>
<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARkStorm" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARkStorm</a></p>
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<p>Of course, just 103 years earlier, during the winter of 1861/1862, we had the Great Flood of 1862: the largest flood in the recorded history of Oregon, Nevada, and California:</p>
<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Flood_of_1862" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Flood_of_1862</a></p>
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<p>I will talk about the weather ... just don't expect me to do anything about it!</p> First off, it's Ferndale, Fer…tag:nwprr.net,2019-03-02:3290209:Comment:1915092019-03-02T04:11:05.117ZJeff Moorehttp://nwprr.net/profile/JeffMoore
<p>First off, it's Ferndale, Fernbridge, and Fortuna. The residents of Slide (named after, well, a nearby land slide) petitioned the state legislature to rename their town Fortuna in 1884, the change happened in 1888. The name translates into "Fortune" in Spanish, the inspiration allegedly being that the residents felt fortunate enough to live there. As for Ferndale, a settler named Seth Shaw built the first structure in what would become that town in 1854, he named his house "Fern Dale"…</p>
<p>First off, it's Ferndale, Fernbridge, and Fortuna. The residents of Slide (named after, well, a nearby land slide) petitioned the state legislature to rename their town Fortuna in 1884, the change happened in 1888. The name translates into "Fortune" in Spanish, the inspiration allegedly being that the residents felt fortunate enough to live there. As for Ferndale, a settler named Seth Shaw built the first structure in what would become that town in 1854, he named his house "Fern Dale" which over time morphed to the present name. There never has been much of a community at Fernbridge, the most notable feature there is the concrete highway bridge spanning the Eel built around 1911 or so....in effect, the bridge to Ferndale became Fernbridge. </p>
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<p>As for this year versus 1964....we're nowhere even close. As of February 26th Eureka has received around 28.5 inches of rain since the water year began on October 1st. What set 1964 apart was that the area received over 31 inches of rain in the span of 23 days. The storms this year have been spaced out enough so that flooding so has been brief and receded quickly.</p>
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<p>Jeff Moore</p>
<p>Elko, NV </p>
<p></p> Well, it's not 1964 YET but t…tag:nwprr.net,2019-03-01:3290209:Comment:1913552019-03-01T14:08:42.453ZFred M. Cainhttp://nwprr.net/profile/FredMCain
<p>Well, it's not 1964 YET but the news keeps getting worse and worse. A new powerful storm is supposed to hit this weekend (March 1 - 3) and indeed, as of March 1st early a.m. the first outer band of showers is coming onshore at Eureka. Weather forecasters, however, think that the brunt of this storm might hit the central coast around San Luis Obispo.</p>
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<p>But the jet stream forecasts for the next week look, in my mind, frightening. I truly hope they are wrong or inaccurate but if…</p>
<p>Well, it's not 1964 YET but the news keeps getting worse and worse. A new powerful storm is supposed to hit this weekend (March 1 - 3) and indeed, as of March 1st early a.m. the first outer band of showers is coming onshore at Eureka. Weather forecasters, however, think that the brunt of this storm might hit the central coast around San Luis Obispo.</p>
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<p>But the jet stream forecasts for the next week look, in my mind, frightening. I truly hope they are wrong or inaccurate but if they prove to come true, there is likely to be massive damage on a state-wide basis. It won't be limited to the former NWPRR vicinity.</p>
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<p>So much for the "fact" that the multi year drought is now the "new normal". I guess I'm just a bit skeptical that our climate has changed all that much if at all.</p>
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<p>Is the world growing warmer? Of course. But I'm not sure we've seen the effects from that yet. Climate is actually a long-term AVERAGE of extreme weather events. When an extreme event like 1964 hits, or that last mega drought we just came through, it's really tough to draw any concrete conclusions from that.</p>
<p>I took a course in meteorology years ago and my professor hammered that into us.</p>
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<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Fred M. Cain</p> I wonder who was in charge of…tag:nwprr.net,2019-03-01:3290209:Comment:1915052019-03-01T14:00:18.608ZDave S.http://nwprr.net/profile/dms
<p>I wonder who was in charge of naming towns up in that area: Furnbridge, Furndale, and Fortuna, all within a couple of miles of one another.</p>
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<p>I also wonder how rains this year compared to 1964.</p>
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<p>I wonder who was in charge of naming towns up in that area: Furnbridge, Furndale, and Fortuna, all within a couple of miles of one another.</p>
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<p>I also wonder how rains this year compared to 1964.</p>
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<p></p> Fernbridge is at Milepost 268…tag:nwprr.net,2019-03-01:3290209:Comment:1913522019-03-01T05:44:26.348ZJeff Moorehttp://nwprr.net/profile/JeffMoore
<p>Fernbridge is at Milepost 268.7, about two miles north of Fortuna and 16 miles south of Eureka. Humboldt Creamery's facility sits at that station, it's also where the state highway to the old Victorian town of Ferndale takes off from old 101. This is not far from where the Eel dumps into the Pacific, and it flows through a broad valley at that point. Eureka Times-Standard newspaper has a nice ten image slideshow of the flooding in Humboldt County right now, focusing mostly on the lower…</p>
<p>Fernbridge is at Milepost 268.7, about two miles north of Fortuna and 16 miles south of Eureka. Humboldt Creamery's facility sits at that station, it's also where the state highway to the old Victorian town of Ferndale takes off from old 101. This is not far from where the Eel dumps into the Pacific, and it flows through a broad valley at that point. Eureka Times-Standard newspaper has a nice ten image slideshow of the flooding in Humboldt County right now, focusing mostly on the lower ends of the Eel and Mad Rivers. </p>
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<p> <a href="https://www.times-standard.com/2019/02/27/photos-check-out-aerial-photos-of-rising-waters-across-humboldt-county/" target="_blank">https://www.times-standard.com/2019/02/27/photos-check-out-aerial-photos-of-rising-waters-across-humboldt-county/</a></p>
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<p>A NWS river forecast issued for Fernbridge a couple days ago projected 25.6 feet yesterday (27 February), with a rapid fall off after that. This appears to check out in as much as the highway to Ferndale is reported as being open with no controls at the moment. If the river did top out at 20 feet over flood stage at Fernbridge that would still mean the river had been higher than that in four of the last five years, the top two recorded years are 29.5 feet in 1965 and 27.7 feet in 1956. </p>
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<p>No question really that this flood- though it looks like it was a relatively brief event in comparison to past events- would cause damage to the rail line, in all reality until we get another major event like 1964-1965 whatever either has washed out or will wash out or get lost to a landslide has already been obliterated in the last twenty years. I note Shivley lost its primary access road to the outside world in this event, and it lies uphill from the rail line. </p>
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<p>Jeff Moore</p>
<p>Elko, NV</p>
<p></p> That canyon literally gets it…tag:nwprr.net,2019-02-28:3290209:Comment:1914342019-02-28T18:12:47.723ZMichael H Harrisonhttp://nwprr.net/profile/MichaelHHarrison
<p>That canyon literally gets it from the top down and the bottom up. Building a trail will be questionable at best. It will wash out multiple times a year also. </p>
<p>I also couldn't imagine going through the Island Mountain Tunnel again. I have been thru it once on foot and once in a daylight car. Both times scared me to death. Its a level of dark that boggles the mind. </p>
<p>That canyon literally gets it from the top down and the bottom up. Building a trail will be questionable at best. It will wash out multiple times a year also. </p>
<p>I also couldn't imagine going through the Island Mountain Tunnel again. I have been thru it once on foot and once in a daylight car. Both times scared me to death. Its a level of dark that boggles the mind. </p> Well, shoot! Here we go agai…tag:nwprr.net,2019-02-28:3290209:Comment:1915042019-02-28T17:34:34.655ZFred M. Cainhttp://nwprr.net/profile/FredMCain
<p>Well, shoot! Here we go again folks. Just in case anyone in California hasn't noticed yet, please let me assure you that the drought is OVER. </p>
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<p>It was reported on the TRAINS Magazine forum on my NWP News thread here: <a href="http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/274053.aspx?page=2#3131516" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/274053.aspx?page=2#3131516</a> that the Eel is now 20 feet over flood stage at Fernbridge (wherever that is). So,…</p>
<p>Well, shoot! Here we go again folks. Just in case anyone in California hasn't noticed yet, please let me assure you that the drought is OVER. </p>
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<p>It was reported on the TRAINS Magazine forum on my NWP News thread here: <a href="http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/274053.aspx?page=2#3131516" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/274053.aspx?page=2#3131516</a> that the Eel is now 20 feet over flood stage at Fernbridge (wherever that is). So, this does not look good for either a future railroad or a future paved bicycle trail.</p>
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<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Fred M. Cain</p> Jeff,
Thanks again for your…tag:nwprr.net,2019-02-15:3290209:Comment:1910372019-02-15T15:40:11.481ZFred M. Cainhttp://nwprr.net/profile/FredMCain
<p>Jeff,</p>
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<p>Thanks again for your input and information. I kinda sorta remembered all that but could no longer cite the dates.</p>
<p>By the way, here was an interesting article in the Eureka Times:</p>
<p><a href="https://www.times-standard.com/2018/11/25/rail-industry-gets-qualified-support-from-governors-office-caltrans/" target="_blank">https://www.times-standard.com/2018/11/25/rail-industry-gets-qualified-support-from-governors-office-caltrans/</a> </p>
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<p>I'd copy and…</p>
<p>Jeff,</p>
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<p>Thanks again for your input and information. I kinda sorta remembered all that but could no longer cite the dates.</p>
<p>By the way, here was an interesting article in the Eureka Times:</p>
<p><a href="https://www.times-standard.com/2018/11/25/rail-industry-gets-qualified-support-from-governors-office-caltrans/" target="_blank">https://www.times-standard.com/2018/11/25/rail-industry-gets-qualified-support-from-governors-office-caltrans/</a> </p>
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<p>I'd copy and past the entire article but it's pretty long so I guess I won't. Hard to tell exactly what this means or if it even means anything at all. The article also seems, at least to me, to raise more questions than it resolves.</p>
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<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Fred M. Cain</p> Absolutely correct, the line…tag:nwprr.net,2019-02-14:3290209:Comment:1912872019-02-14T22:51:58.982ZJeff Moorehttp://nwprr.net/profile/JeffMoore
<p>Absolutely correct, the line has never been abandoned. I don't remember now if NWP ever went through a formal abandonment process for discontinuing service, which can be done separate from abandoning the rail line, or if they have simply relied upon service embargoes left in place since 1998.</p>
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<p>I also don't know how off hand how much authority the STB has to force a rail line to rebuild a damaged rail line and place it back in service, or if they would have the willingness to…</p>
<p>Absolutely correct, the line has never been abandoned. I don't remember now if NWP ever went through a formal abandonment process for discontinuing service, which can be done separate from abandoning the rail line, or if they have simply relied upon service embargoes left in place since 1998.</p>
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<p>I also don't know how off hand how much authority the STB has to force a rail line to rebuild a damaged rail line and place it back in service, or if they would have the willingness to enforce such an order if they do have that authority. Anything such orders they issue could be subjected to judicial review, and the State/NCRA I think would have a fairly easy case to make that such an order would pose an undue burden on the railroad. It's also hard to see who would be a good plaintiff in such an action now, in as much as the North Coast has been without rail service for over 20 years now. It's not like there are many industries left that used the railroad when it was still open, nor are there many that would use rail service if it were restored. The only litigation over the end of service I've ever heard of was a case brought by the bankruptcy trustees for the local ownership group that bought the California Western from Kyle, the trustee attempted for a while to recover money from NCRA under the premise that NCRA's failure to maintain service south from Willits contributed to CWR's bankruptcy. I don't remember now how that case turned out. The incident Fred referred to was not actually flood damage but rather a tunnel collapse, and the service restoration wasn't ordered by the ICC. Specifically, the timeline ran as follows. The winter of 1982-1983 tore the railroad apart, leaving it closed off and on starting in late January, and then in April NWP embargoed everything north of WIllits because of flood damage. NWP effected repairs and reopened the line on 9 June 1983; however, operations only lasted about five weeks, as on 18 July NWP implemented a $1,200 per carload surcharge on all traffic moving north of Willits, which caused all shippers in Eureka to switch to trucks. NWP appears to have hauled only three freight loads to or from Eureka between then and when the Eureka Southern started up a year and a couple months later, two loads of butter out of Humboldt Creamery in Fernbridge and one boiler for Blue Lake Boiler Works above Arcata. </p>
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<p>NWP applied to abandon the line north of WIllits on 1 September 1983. On 11 September a motorist on Highway 101 called in a reported fire in Tunnel #12. The fire gutted the 881-foot tunnel, which NWP figured would cost $635,000 to repair or $850,000 to bypass, and the railroad laid off all remaining people in Eureka and trucked all remaining locomotives and cars trapped north of the tunnel into Willits. Several shippers plus other government agencies brought suit against NWP in Federal court, contending NWP had illegally abandoned the line; the judge agreed and ordered NWP on 27 January 1984 to rebuild the tunnel, which they did within two weeks. Then on 7 February the ICC denied the abandonment petition, but as the $1,200 per carload surcharge remained in effect the line still remained inactive until the Eureka Southern took over that fall. </p>
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<p>As for abandonment, at this point it would be in all reality an open and shut case. No traffic has moved over the line in over 20 years now. Abandonment regulations do heavily favor retaining rail service over all other purposes; should NCRA file to abandon the rail line there would be opportunities for other parties to step in to buy the line from NCRA for continued operation. Only after that process is sorted out can the STB find the grade suitable for another public purpose, i.e. a trail. </p>
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<p>It'll be interesting to see how the Security National situation works itself out. As time goes on it becomes increasingly difficult for NCRA to maintain their right-of-way, and I would expect that one or more of the affected parties could try making a case that the line has been "de facto" abandoned by NCRA's apparent inaction or otherwise continuing to use the right-of-way for construction and operation of a railroad. </p>
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<p>Jeff Moore</p>
<p>Elko, NV </p> Fred:
Good catch on picking u…tag:nwprr.net,2019-02-14:3290209:Comment:1911762019-02-14T19:25:33.372ZRichard C. Brandhttp://nwprr.net/profile/RichardCBrand
<p>Fred:</p>
<p>Good catch on picking up that comment on the TRAINS forum. I don’t subscribe to that forum.</p>
<p>To answer your question at the NCRA meeting yesterday the board made a clear position statement that the line is NOT abandoned period.</p>
<p>The issue came up via a Staff report discussion item. Security National (a bank apparently) had sent a letter to the NCRA stating that due to no train traffic being operated in a years time on a section of the old RoW which ran thru their…</p>
<p>Fred:</p>
<p>Good catch on picking up that comment on the TRAINS forum. I don’t subscribe to that forum.</p>
<p>To answer your question at the NCRA meeting yesterday the board made a clear position statement that the line is NOT abandoned period.</p>
<p>The issue came up via a Staff report discussion item. Security National (a bank apparently) had sent a letter to the NCRA stating that due to no train traffic being operated in a years time on a section of the old RoW which ran thru their property, they were refusing to pay the NCRA any funds for an easement. Commissioner Fennel spoke up and said that allowing this would be a “slippery slope” (interesting comment considering the hard rain coming down outside the meeting) for NCRA when other entities are paying for easements/access. </p>
<p>The issue was referred to counsel for action.</p>
<p>So not abandoned. </p>